Role Model Doesn't Want to Write Love Songs

Tucker Pillsbury, the singer-songwriter known as Role Model, has never been to Carbone. He’s heard about the New York Italian restaurant, he tells me within seconds of our meeting: One time he almost went with his girlfriend during fashion week, but something came up. Tonight, she’s instructed him to bring her home a Caesar salad. Pillsbury has yet to officially reveal the identity of said girlfriend, but he recently posed for photos at the Vanity Fair Oscar party with his arm around the YouTube star Emma Chamberlain, and a woman who looks very much like Chamberlain appears throughout his recent video, “neverletyougo." I can’t blame him for wanting to spill about the woman “with an insane amount of influence” whose videos he's “watched every single one of”: We’re eating Mario Carbone’s famous spicy rigatoni! He just ordered us meatballs! And his debut album, Rx, out today, is “all about” his love for this woman, he says.

Pillsbury’s rise has been fast: In 2018, he was a student at the University of Pittsburgh who was failing all his classes and smoking too much weed, while trying to build on his obsession with rap through his own songwriting. Eventually, he gave softer melodies and breathy singing a try—and one of these earlier songs, “Stolen Car,” a ballad about addiction and longing, caught the late Mac Miller’s attention, leading to a deal with Interscope Records and a move to Los Angeles. Rx is catchy and mostly upbeat, with self-analytical and vulnerable lyrics that prove Pillsbury to be quite self-deprecating. His song titles are almost humorous, with titles like, “die for my bitch,” and “stripclub music.” With a Coachella performance and a world tour ahead, Pillsbury talked candidly about his struggles with his mental health, the challenges of touring with diabetes, and recording Rx.

GQ*:* How did you first get in touch with Mac Miller?

Tucker Pillsbury: It was the end of my first year at the University of Pittsburgh. I wasn’t that musical before college, but in retrospect, I think I just needed to be exposed to it. Once I fell in love with music, I started failing school. I also started smoking weed and drinking. But I gave myself a window. I was like, “if nothing happens with music by a certain time,” I promised myself I would quit.

Then, the [Instagram] DM happened. Mac Miller reached out and flew me out, and my career kicked off. It was when he and Ariana [Grande] were breaking up, and he told me he related to "Stolen Car." Then, he passed. I was back home when I got the call, and I started crying when I hung up. Mac was the first person to see me as an artist.

How has your sound evolved since then?

Interscope lets me do my thing; I creative direct most of what you’ll see out of this album. I had so many offers over that year, though. I first signed with Benny Blanco and Interscope, their joint venture. Benny Blanco doesn’t know how to run a label so that obviously fell apart, and he dropped everyone. Luckily, Interscope came to my rescue, and I’ve been with them ever since; I’ve been in Los Angeles since, too. It’s hard to meet people, though. I enjoy going home to Maine from time to time to escape all of it.

Are you close to your parents?

I’m very lucky: I love my parents. They’re a very solid representation of love, too; they’re still together, and very in love. So you’d think that’d make me like a relationship person, but I have my first girlfriend ever right now. I was very closed off to the idea of a relationship before this. I was always scared of how it would influence my music.

I would argue that falling in love can be great for the arts. Some of my most meaningful relationships have yielded my best work.

Since I started making music, I’ve always written about heartbreak. I’ve always been scared to be in a relationship. This relationship is my first girlfriend ever. I’m so used to sleeping around and breaking hearts. At the beginning of my relationship, I kept asking myself: Do I make myself happy? Should I live this out? Do I stop the relationship so that I can write again? This relationship definitely halted my writing. It was really horrifying. This is the battle! I’m just so happy with this person, though. She’s the best.

How do you feel about writing about being in love?

When I started the album, it was seriously all love songs. You couldn’t pay me to listen to it! Straightforward love songs don’t move me. It’s so boring! There had to be a shift. I scrapped everything and started over. It’s more about trying to find a unique way.

“If Jesus Saves, She’s My Type” makes me think you have a complicated relationship with faith too.

I’ve lost thousands of followers because of that song. It’s not about religion at all, actually. I hoped people wouldn’t take offense, honestly, because the song isn’t about God, Jesus, or the devil. It’s pretty wild to write about love. I’m just so used to being single.

Did you like being single?

I always loved being alone. I’ve been this way my whole life: I would voluntarily put myself in the studio for six days out of the week to not have to text anyone back. Everything up until the last EP [“Our Little Angel”] was about my time being single. I never had an official girlfriend, but I had various people with whom I would spend time. I would be with some of them for a week, and then I would stop saying anything to them. I’m not proud of it, but what’s the famous person dating app? That’s the craziest invention ever.

Raya. Is that how you fell into your current relationship?

No. I love my alone time, but even the strongest people reach a breaking point. I was starting to reach that point, so I just DMed her on Instagram. I said her outfits were fire lately, as if I didn’t just follow her. We were supposed to hang out the night before I left for Maine, but it fell through and I went to Maine without seeing her. We kept texting every day while I was gone. I got back and went straight to her apartment. We didn’t kiss that night; we played Fortnite.

She said “I love you” a week into our relationship, and loving her back changed something in my brain. I wouldn’t say it cured my depression completely, but I was suddenly going outside, working out, and taking care of myself for the first time. I knew I was in love with her before I met her. I can judge people well online, and I knew I loved her because of little things she did, like the way she blinks and shit. It’s stupid little things! I felt like I knew her. She reminded me of myself.

When was the first fight?

We haven’t had it yet. We are both the most open with each other, ever. Our dynamic just works. She’s the most talkative human being on the earth, and I’m shy. We are both not confrontational, which makes me think like that would cause its set of problems, but it works for us. We know what each other is thinking without speaking.

What does she think of the album?

We honestly don’t talk about work. I don’t show her my music. I don’t play anyone my music, really. I’m not showing my friends songs about me having sex! It’s weird. No one hears it besides my team. I don’t know how to talk about relationships, but she knows it’s all about her.

I love how much you bring her up, despite not wanting to bring her up.

When you fall in love, it takes up every ounce of your brain. I sat her down, one month in and explained this: I’ve always taken pride in the fact that people who follow me, follow me. People follow me because they like my music. She has an insane amount of influence, and people constantly watch her every move. I don’t want anyone following me for any reason other than my music. She was super chill about it, but I’m still very scared.

TikTok seems to think she’s the reason you both keep your relationship offline. She’s even said as much in interviews before.

I think a lot of people think that, but it was a mutual thing. Picture this: If I played stadiums one day and it filled up, and no one was singing the words to my songs, I’d know that no one was there because of me. That’s my worst fear. Her followers actually figured it out before we even kissed! I commented on a photo, and they were like, Who is this? Are they dating? They saw her parents were following me. I didn’t know about her videos when I met her. I found her on TikTok first. Since we’ve been dating, I’ve watched every single one of her videos.

You have a line in your song “Rx” that goes “I don’t need therapy.” How does anyone possibly not need therapy?

I don’t even like going to the doctor when something is actually wrong with me. I’ve been feeling better recently, though. I feel motivated even outside of music. I wake up. I run. I go on hikes. I go to this trail every morning, which makes me feel good. However, at the same time, I’m still getting high every day. It’s almost like, as much as I try, I don’t want to let go of that sad depressing part of myself. I think there’s a part of me that really likes being sad. I haven’t made a song since we finished the album, probably two and a half months ago. I’m horrified.

What would make you feel like this album is a success?

I want something on the radio. I want that to happen without ever bringing a writer into a room. I actually had a breakdown about this: Interscope would put me in a room with these amazing writers, and it never worked for me. I always end up questioning myself. All my favorite songs take me 10 minutes. I write all my own songs alone.

I also want to act. I auditioned for the role of Elliot in Euphoria. Dominic Fike did a great job, but I was up for that role. Before the audition, I studied for two weeks and locked myself in my apartment. I want to go into acting alongside my music career. I’m excited about this album, though. I’m excited for it to be out.

Are you going to blast your music out on TikTok?

I have such strong feelings about TikTok. I have seen it ruin really amazing careers that were just getting started, and all of a sudden they get a viral song and shit just ends. I’ve posted my music on TikTok before, but I usually delete it. My label tells me to post [on TikTok]. I get it. If I was a label, I would tell artists that too. That’s their job. TikTok isn’t about longevity, though. TikTok is depressing.

What do you do when you’re depressed?

I get high and watch movies. I’m a classic A24 boy. I also generally have to take care of myself because I’m diabetic. It impacts my life a lot. Touring is a nightmare. I downplay everything to make people not worry, but it definitely could take years off my life. I met Este Haim at a festival recently, and she has diabetes too. I had been trying to contact her for years! I wish more people with diabetes talked about it. I'm Type I. Type II is fake. I don't believe in it. Type I is the one where you have to have shit hooked up. I’m trying to talk about it more. It just takes so much coordination when I’m on tour.

How do you feel about touring?

I love touring. I get to hide in my bus then pop out and get a bunch of validation, but traveling with diabetes is hard.

Who is your dream to work with? Tyler. I want to produce with him.

What’s the story behind all your tattoos?

People with tattoos love to talk about their tattoos. You know, they're like, "Hey." I'm like, "How are you?" And then they're like, "Oh, this one? This is my grandfather who passed away last year. It like, really fucked me up." It's like, shut the fuck up.

Should we get matching tattoos tonight? Let’s get matching GQ tattoos. I feel like I would be good at working at GQ.

Are you going to get an Emma tattoo?

Yes, but I won’t say which one.

You should keep some things a secret forever, by the way.

Yeah, it’s a secret.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Styled by Edwin Ortega